Richard Hannon 2yos - Punterprofits.com

Richard Hannon 2yos

Richard Hannon 2yos - Does their debut run tell us anything?

Richard Hannon always has a large stable of 2 year olds – indeed each year he tends to have the most 2yos in the country (in trainer terms). This article attempts to see if we can glean anything from their 2yo debut run. The data is taken from 2005 to 2010 and I am focusing on the three subsequent runs after their debut (eg. career starts 2, 3 and 4).

My first port of call was to look at Hannon’s 2yos in terms of their finishing position on their debut.

1^st on debut

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	21	72	29.2	-£2.62	-2.6
3^rd career start	13	65	20.0	-£16.19	-16.2
4^th career start	8	60	13.3	-£35.62	-35.6

Debutant winners have a good strike rate on their second run – near to 30%. However, despite this, they have still made a small loss. Performance gets progressively worse over their next three runs.

2^nd on debut

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	13	57	22.8	-£22.38	-39.3
3^rd career start	22	54	40.7	+£8.29	+15.4
4^th career start	12	53	22.6	-£8.03	-15.2

Horses that finish 2^nd on debut are often strongly touted to go one better next time, but this has not been the case with Hannon runners. Having said that, their 3^rd career start has produced an excellent SR, but all winners were cramped odds – biggest price being 7/2. Hence only modest profits.

3^rd/4^th on debut

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	37	133	27.8	-£8.05	-6.1
3^rd career start	35	129	27.1	+£58.42	+45.3
4^th career start	28	122	23.0	+£7.37	+6.0

Decent return for runners having 3^rd career start once again – however 25/1 and 22/1 winners did help somewhat. All in all Hannon’s runners who finish 3^rd or 4^th on their 2yo debut are worth close scrutiny on their next three starts.

5^th or worse on debut

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	66	442	14.9	+£49.30	+11.2
3^rd career start	48	420	11.4	-£71.64	-17.1
4^th career start	59	397	14.9	-£56.70	-14.3

Interesting that these runners have managed to make a profit on their second career start – clearly with a strike rate of under 15% the winning prices have compensated for this. Of course with a moderate run on debut, one would expect some decent prices on their very next start. 3^rd and 4^th career starts however, have not produced any results to shout about.

Let me move on to see if the distance on their debut run makes any difference.

Debut over 5f

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	53	196	27.0	-£1.00	-0.5
3^rd career start	36	192	18.8	-£48.40	-25.2
4^th career start	39	186	21.0	-£32.96	-17.7

Hannon is more renowned for his 2yo sprinters (5-6f) so it is perhaps no surprise to see a near break-even situation on their second starts. 3^rd and 4^th runs look best avoided however.

Debut over 6f

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	53	307	17.3	+£36.74	+12.0
3^rd career start	59	295	20.0	+£87.87	+29.8
4^th career start	37	275	13.5	-£62.75	-22.8

As stated above, Hannon is renowned more for his sprinting 2yos and the 6f debutants certainly catch the eye on their next two starts – profits made on their 2^nd and 3^rd career runs is something to take note of.

Debut over 7f+

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	31	200	15.5	-£18.50	-9.2
3^rd career start	22	180	12.2	-£63.92	-35.5
4^th career start	31	170	18.2	+£3.71	+2.2

Horses that make their 2yo debut over 7f or more have a fair record next time, but then their performance drops off on their 3^rd start. Profits are made on their fourth start – I wonder if they come from handicap debutants, as this is the only explanation I can offer for an improved performance.

I have written articles before about 2yo debutants and have noted that the course where they make debut does make a difference. Hence it makes sense to explore this idea in detail for Hannon’s 2yos.

Debut at Ascot

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	1	24	4.2	-£21.25	-88.5
3^rd career start	7	24	29.2	-£6.18	-25.7
4^th career start	3	23	13.0	-£4.63	-20.1

Not many Hannon runners make their debut at Ascot, but I would expected much better figures than we get. Indeed, the second start figures are very poor; albeit from a relatively small sample.

Debut at Bath

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	4	26	15.4	-£11.00	-42.3
3^rd career start	7	25	28.0	+£4.80	+19.2
4^th career start	7	22	31.8	+£8.48	+38.5

Horses that make their debut at Bath perform fairly poorly on their second start, but there are profitable figures for their 3^rd and 4^th starts – not only that, the respective strike rates are high as well.

Debut at Goodwood

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	9	64	14.1	-£22.06	-34.5
3^rd career start	13	59	22.0	+£11.90	+20.2
4^th career start	8	54	14.8	-£22.08	-40.9

Quite a few of Hannon’s 2yos make their debut at Goodwood. A bit of a confusing ‘pattern’ here with 2^nd and 4^th career stats performing poorly, with the 3^rd career start showing a good strike rate and profit. Difficult to explain I’m afraid.

Debut at Kempton

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	13	48	27.1	+£26.90	+56.0
3^rd career start	6	41	14.6	-£12.35	-30.1
4^th career start	10	41	24.4	+£12.74	+31.1

Horses making their debut on the all weather don’t always catch the eye, but Kempton debutants for Hannon have an excellent strike rate on their next run. 3^rd starts sees a dip, but 4^th starts go back into profit with a good strike rate. Kempton debutants may offer some value in future starts.

Debut at Lingfield

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	3	30	10.0	-£18.55	-61.8
3^rd career start	3	29	10.3	-£18.85	-65.0
4^th career start	5	25	20.0	+£0.67	+2.7

Lingfield debutants look worth avoiding on their next two starts – losses of over 60p in the £ for 2^nd and 3^rd career starts is very poor.

Debut at Newbury

135 2yos made their debut at Newbury – more than any other course.

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	23	130	17.7	-£3.51	-2.7
3^rd career start	23	123	18.7	+£90.48	+73.6
4^th career start	27	123	22.0	+£34.01	+27.6

Best course stats to date, especially 3^rd and 4^th career starts. The results improve if you ignore the 68 qualifiers that did not run as a 2yo. Horses that raced as a 3yo produced an overall loss combining their next three starts.

Debut at Newmarket

88 of Hannon’s 2yos made their debut at HQ.

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	20	87	23.0	-£10.14	-11.7
3^rd career start	13	82	15.9	+£2.40	+2.9
4^th career start	12	74	16.2	-£22.19	-30.0

A good strike rate on their subsequent run but losses were made if you had backed all of them. A small profit made on 3^rd career starts, but overall the figures are poorer than I would have expected. I would have thought he would have sent some decent 2yos to Newmarket on debut with the scope to progress quickly in future starts.

Debut at Salisbury

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	12	67	17.9	-£20.30	-30.3
3^rd career start	10	65	15.4	-£35.01	-53.9
4^th career start	4	61	6.6	-£44.92	-73.6

Hannon sends a fair proportion of his 2yos to Salisbury for their debut, but clearly these animals are not the cream of the crop. Significant losses on all three subsequent starts and hence these are runners to avoid.

Debut at Windsor

107 runners made their debut at Windsor – Hannon’s 2yos are a standing dish at the Berkshire course.

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	20	105	19.0	-£10.51	-10.0
3^rd career start	19	104	18.3	-£12.67	-12.2
4^th career start	14	99	14.1	-£47.52	-48.0

Solid enough figures for 2^nd and 3^rd career starts, but the performance drops off significantly on the 4^th start.

Finally, does the jockey who takes their first ride make any difference in terms of subsequent performance?

Jockey on debut – Dane O’Neill

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	8	41	19.5	-£17.71	-43.2
3^rd career start	8	39	20.5	-£0.55	-1.4
4^th career start	2	37	5.4	-£29.88	-80.7

Strike rate is decent enough on 2^nd start but significantly losses have accrued. 4^th career starts have been dreadful.

Jockey on debut – Pat Dobbs

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	25	124	20.2	+£89.55	+72.2
3^rd career start	24	117	20.5	-£3.32	-2.8
4^th career start	20	107	18.7	+£27.58	+25.8

Pat Dobbs is a regular pilot for Hannon these days and the subsequent results of him riding on 2yo debut are very good. Perhaps his booking on debut does not catch the eye as much as say Richard Hughes and this prejudices opinion slightly in future races.

Jockey on debut – Ryan Moore

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	24	134	17.9	-£41.59	-31.0
3^rd career start	15	129	11.6	-£59.44	-46.1
4^th career start	24	119	20.2	-£17.64	-14.8

As one of the top jockeys, a booking of Ryan Moore on debut may well catch the eye. Indeed, even if the debut run is not a good one, some punters will note down the fact the Moore was on board first time up. However, it does really seem to be a plus in terms of the next three starts with significant losses on their next two starts and average losses on the third (4^th career start).

Jockey on debut – Richard Hughes

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	43	235	18.3	-£76.85	-32.7
3^rd career start	48	226	21.2	+£68.21	+30.2
4^th career start	38	222	17.1	-£61.80	-27.8

Richard Hughes has ridden the most 2yo debutants for Hannon. A mixed picture though in terms of future results – from a profit/loss perspective anyway. 3^rd career starts have provided a profit but this is down to a couple of decent priced winners.

Jockey on debut – All other jockeys

Career start	Wins	Runs	SR%	Profit/loss	ROI%
2^nd career start	37	170	21.8	+£62.85	+37.0
3^rd career start	23	157	14.6	-£26.02	-16.6
4^th career start	23	147	15.6	-£11.25	-7.7

These figures are interesting – profits on 2^nd career starts and these runners are probably a bit of value. It would be interesting to see if a switch to say Dobbs or Hughes would make a difference and that is something I plan to look into in the future.

I hope this article has given you some food for thought and make you look at Hannon’s debutants in a more informed light.

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